4BR Commentary - General Opinions Here

Discussion in 'Spring Festival Blackpool' started by brassneck, May 13, 2006.

  1. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    For all said and done about the merits of 4BR's live comments during contests, and that of the official adjudicators ... I feel that they should announce what they are looking for from performances prior to the event (even on the day!). This would help anyone that's viewing online to understand better what they expect using open adjudication as a means to an end. Any other developments that you can think of?
  2. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    Are you talking about 4BarsRest or the adjudicators? I feel that it would be a step forward for adjudicators to publish their thoughts before any set test piece contest, and have said so before, but lets not start that discussion up again! But it might be a good reference point if 4BarsRest published some of their thoughts beforehand - their comments can sometimes generate as much consternation and confusion as the adjudicators'!
  3. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    One of banding's regular complaints about the adjudication system is that bands never know what is expected of them usually until they have played. It would be an idea for the 4BR team to publish what they are looking for. It wouldn't have any impact on the day's adjudication if it went online at the time the competition begins but it would give a hint to viewers how they form their criteria.
  4. Roger Thorne

    Roger Thorne Active Member

    The best overall musical performance, with attention to tempo, dynamics, balance, phrasing, tuning, intonation etc, etc, - the same as the official adjudicators isn't it?

  5. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    and erm.,
  6. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    4barsrest usually give pretty clear pointers in their preview articles, highlighting what they see as the main features of the works in question. What seems to be the most contentious issue is to what extent split notes should be taken into account when placing performances in order.
  7. James Yelland

    James Yelland Active Member

    Is it? Are the competences you mention above enshrined in a set of written rules for adjudicators? Do these rules have a name? Are they published? I only ask for information, as I have never actually heard of any codified set of rules for adjudicators,and it seems to me that this omission is what is at the heart of every pointless argument about the rights or wrongs of contest results.

    A referee or umpire will have a copy of the rules of Association Football or the laws of cricket to refer to - laymen can buy a copy at their local bookshop. Where does one get a copy of the rules of brass band contesting?
  8. Darth_Tuba

    Darth_Tuba Active Member

    ...and there are never dubious decisions in football or cricket!
  9. Seedhouse

    Seedhouse Active Member

    Have to say I disagree about adjudicators publishing what they're looking for prior to contests- for me the only thing that helps them choose bands apart is the individual interpretations by the MD's- surely any sort of "what we're looking for" would cause MD's to all concentrate on abiding by set rules basically in an attempt to win/ do well, dismissing the need for individual interpretation/ limiting it, and performing numerous performances that lack individuality? :confused:
  10. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    There blimmin' are.

    I've been 'umpired' in two out of the first three games of the year.....
  11. James Yelland

    James Yelland Active Member

    Perish the thought! I take your point of course - but at least football and cricket players and followers know what the rules are - even if there may be debate about their application in specific instances. Bandsmen have no such insight into the rules governing their chosen sport, for the simple reason that there is (unless someone corrects me) no set of rules for the adjudicator to work to. On that basis, the adjudicator is always right, nobody can gainsay that, and argument is futile. The fact that 1,000 people in the audience came to a different conclusion is irrelevant - even if, like the adjudicator, they had all listened to all the performances.
  12. persins

    persins Member

    I tend to agree. Although we all want to win, I think that we should be concentrating more on the interpretation and giving a good performance rather than playing to a strict formula depending on who is in the box. It is realistic to note the preferences of the adjudicator and also research their other decisions but the MD should surely back their own ability to bring out the music as intended by the composer not the adjudicator (unless they are the same person!!!).
  13. eckyboy

    eckyboy Member

    Well said, I've been told in the past to play in a certain way because the adjudicator dislikes bands to play loud and have done as requested along with the rest of the band. At the end of the day you should play as directed and if you get a result great but if not there is always another day and another adjudicator. It's not as if it's life or death, it's only a contest so we should play the music without all the pressure attached to winning, but if it happens then thats great but if not, we all still enjoyed playing.
  14. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    - try this for a sampler ... seems a decent way of looking at performance and can be adapted for ranges of ability ... http://www.cmeabaysection.org/adjudicationcriteria.pdf
  15. James Yelland

    James Yelland Active Member

    Or even this, which someone on 4BR drew to my attention a while ago.


    Although it needs to be stressed that neither of these documents are rules for adjudicators to follow - they are not prescriptive. They are merely guidelines - which in the absence of any method of assessing music quantitavely is all they can ever be. And what goes for the adjudicators goes for 4BarsRest.
  16. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    - your link is the more popular format for musical performance assessment, Jim. The main point about the two of them is that teachers, conductors, bands/ensembles/soloists and adjudicators know what is expected of them.

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