2005 Masters Becomes International?!

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by NAS, Jun 11, 2004.


Should Non English Bands Be Invited To Compete?

  1. Yes?

  2. No?

  1. NAS

    NAS Member

    Ok guys... what do you think then? Once again the debate has been opened as to whether 'The All England Masters' should be kept as a contest for 'All' English bands.

  2. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    Perhaps they ought to change the contest name to the Half-England Masters. Even as an outsider, I definitely think they should keep it all England. :evil:

    I fear the Euros & World Championships will now go down by the wayside as eventually this will have the best 20 bands in Europe.
  3. neiltwist

    neiltwist Active Member

    for me, it's abit outdated to say english only! surely that's what the areas is for? (edit: and finals)

    personally, for me, the masters has been a revolutionary (ok, strong word!) contest. Long may innovation take place.
  4. Nah keep it all english bud - you fellas have enough stuff to do besides that surely it's cool to use the all england title once a year. I think its great.
  5. Mike S

    Mike S Member

    Interesting, isn't it, that they draw the line after the top 11 bands from this years Masters so that they can include Sellars? I wonder how bands will qualify for an invitation to future Masters competitions if they are not invited this year? Avelely & Newham and Redbridge had their best ever results this year, but are they really consistent? Also, I wonder if Dyke and Grimey will accept their invitations now?
  6. johnflugel

    johnflugel Active Member

    Personally speaking (not as a competing bandsman), I see what Phillip Biggs is trying to do. It was obvious this year that the standard has dropped (or maybe the piece just much harder) so increasing the number of quality bands will make it more audience friendly.

    The only thing I would query is how they have selected the competing English Bands. Taking the top 11 from one years contesting doesn't give an indication of the best bands in England. Perhaps done on the basis of averaging out three years form and/or taking into account Grand Shield, British Open, Areas would give a better representation. There will be bands (Leyland a very good example) who may feel shunned at the expense of some of the 'name' bands who have never previously supported the contest and a couple of others who have produced an excellent result this year but not in previous years.
  7. KennyC

    KennyC Member

    Fantastic idea!

    Kenny - Whitburn Band
  8. Les Wood

    Les Wood Member

    If I was in Leyland Band I would be extremely non-chuffed that bands that have never supported the contest in the past get an invitation before they do. Loyalty? Pah!

    A couple of other points:
    (i) Will the same bands be invited back the following year - what are the criteria for invitation and/or dropping out of the contest? Will it be at the whim of the organisers or will there be a more formal system put in place?
    (ii) For the non-English bands obtaining an invite - if the invitation is based on ranking positions, what will be the selection date for this, and what ranking system will be used (4BR, BBW)?

    On the whole, not sure if it's a good idea or not. I think clearer criteria for invitation to the contest need to be established (although I appreciate that maybe contradicts the concept of "by invitation").

    Les Wood
    Kirkintilloch Band
  9. Roger Thorne

    Roger Thorne Active Member

    Excuse my ignorance here but how can you have an 'All England Masters' when nine of the bands are 'International'?

    "And this years winners of the 'All England Masters International Brass Band Championships' are . . . . . Brass Band Willebroek from Belgium :?

    It was only a couple of years ago that the English bands threw their teddies at the invitation of a Welsh Band. So I can hardly see them accepting this.
    The report states that the decision to change has taken place, yet its interesing to see the words 'possibly send' and 'hopefully send' used when refering to the 'European' bands. There's no guarantee that the English bands will accept Mr. Biggs let alone the European bands.

    Interesting times ahead.

  10. The King of Wise

    The King of Wise New Member

    Loyalty is a two-way thing. Perhaps if Leyland hadn't pulled out of this year's contest at the last minute they would have been invited to next year's.

    Defending champions pulling out - poor show. Could you imagine how serious a situation it would have needed to be for Dyke to have have pulled out of the National in 1960? Half of the band would have needed to die first.

  11. Dave1

    Dave1 Member

    It's the All English Masters - keep it English. We now have a Scottish open and they can have a Welsh open as well.
    When some one sets up a contest with particular rules and regulations why do we always want to change things. As I recall this contest was originally set up to allow the invited bands a lot of flexibility re choosing pieces and adjudicators etc. etc. Let them get on with it.
  12. nickjones

    nickjones Active Member

    there was a welsh masters , called the welsh brewers challenge...but it didnt work , north wales bands didnt get an invite , and not many bands entered
  13. The King of Wise

    The King of Wise New Member

    .................and I do believe there were English and Welsh bands in the Scottish Open.

  14. Darth_Tuba

    Darth_Tuba Active Member

    Don't talk shite! Dyke and Grimey get invites every year, turn them down, and will still be invited. Faireys also didn't attend this year and will be getting an invite. We were unable to attend due to circumstances beyond our control. Comparing to bands in the 60s is not an option... the world has changed. Get out of the Brassed Off mentallity that contests are the be all and end all.
  15. Naomi McFadyen

    Naomi McFadyen New Member

    ... geeeesh... so much for the ALL England Masters... :roll:
  16. yorkie19

    yorkie19 Active Member

    Personally speaking, I think this is a great move by Messrs Biggs and Franklin. I think it will add a spark to the contest and bands will certainly have to be at the top of their game to feature on the day.

    The attitude that it needs to remain an 'All-English' contest disappoints me. Maybe the new name isn't the most appropriate, but from what I can see, I don't think this contest is going to be diminished by allowing bands from other countries to compete.

    At the end of the day Phillip Biggs and Richard Franklin are businessmen and if they think this is the best way forward for the contest, they have my vote.


    Am I right in thinking that only two of the five bands that protested actually took part this year? Don't see a problem with having Scottish, Welsh and English Opens where the top bands from the host country can invite other bands from other countries to "Come and have a go!"
  18. jambo

    jambo Member

    I think that having the All England Masters and keeping it all English is great!

    After all, for British contesting we already have the Open and all of the qualifying contests at the Spring Festival. We have the Nationals and also the Scottish Open.

    The Masters just puts a different angle on things and whilst excluding bands outside of England it does help to encourage bands who would not other wise make it to the Open or the National Finals.

    The only issue that I have with the Masters is that there are clearly English Bands who deserve an invite yet do not recieve them. Oh yes and then there's the thing about the adjudicators dictating what they will and will not do re sitting in boxes...(but thats a different thread)
  19. deave

    deave Member

    Two years ago when Cory were invited seemed wrong to me! But the contest was in much better shape then!! I do feel that they have made the right decision in moving the contest forward in a different direction....it will be great for bands like mine (sellers) to compete against european bands, as we would never normally get the chance!!!

    However, I do feel for the bands who won't be invited back for coming just outside of the margins! As again, it cuts off an opportunity for them to compete against bands which they don't regularly get the chance to.
  20. johnflugel

    johnflugel Active Member

    The idea of a major contest is not to encourage bands. Pontins tends to be a good contest for bands who do not regularly qualify for the Open or Nationals (that is not critisicm of the bands or contest by the way - my band won it in 2000!).

    i) If the Masters is to be all English bands, then it should have the best 20 bands. Not taking the 'big-boys' and filling the remaining places with bands from each area. It should be the very best and if that means there is a higher representation for Yorkshire/Lanscashire (let's face it, on the whole they dominate the frame at the Open and Nationals) then so be it. If we are honest, coming 6th in the Yorkshire or Lancashire area is a bigger achievement than getting in the top six at other English regions.

    If the Masters is to be say 11 english bands and the rest from European countries, then the that should be the best 11 from i) plus the Europeans

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