£2000 car scrap scheme - any takers?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by BigHorn, Apr 24, 2009.

  1. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    Anybody thinking of taking advantage of the £2000 scrappage scheme announced in the budget. I'm seriously thinking about scrapping the family's 10 year old Fiat Punto in favour of a small city car like the Toyota Aygo or Citroen C1.
    The old punto is the family's 2nd car used to teach the kids to drive and do the wifes shopping so it would not have been a top priority to upgrade, but this offer seems very tempting. Will hopefully be able to pick up a new, top branded car for under £5000.

    Feel a bit sorry for those with nearly new cars though - it could hit 2nd hand values hard.

    Anybody any thoughts generally on the fairness, greeness, practicality of the scheme?
  2. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    I'd be quick then, because the maths of this doesn't entirely stack up to me.

    First of all, the government aren't paying £2000, although they would like you to think they are. They are paying £1000 and requiring the manufacturer to match that with £1000 of their own. The chances are that the majority of people taking advantage of the scheme will be looking for a small city car, which manufacturers rely on selling cheaply in large quantities and which don't have a lot of margin for either the manufacturer or the dealer. So, once the surplus forecourt stock and the vehicles that are already manufactured have been shifted (which you would probably have got a good discount on anyway), where's the incentive for manufacturers to keep producing cars that they can't make any money on?

    Now while I find it hard to drum up much pity for monolithic car manufacturers, the fact is that there simply isn't £1000 profit in the smallest cars at the moment - C1s, Aygos, Hyundai i10s, etc. - so list prices are going to drift upwards and a lot of the discounting that you see (especially on Citroens) will disappear as soon as they know you've got a scrapper to dispose of. Plus if the money allocated runs out (i.e. if 300,000 people take advantage of it) the scheme will finish early.

    Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea. It's just that, like much else in this country, it's being implemented in a half-ar$ed way. In Germany the government put 5 billion euros £4.9 billion) into their scheme, which kind of indicates that they mean it and it's a serious policy commitment, rather than a quick, relatively cheap, headline grabber.
  3. ronnie_the_lizard

    ronnie_the_lizard Active Member

    It's also environmentally unsound, because although the newer replacement models may be a bit better on emissions, this will be outweighed by the amount of CO2 \ heavy metal contamination caused by the manufacturing processes for the new car.
  4. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    I heartily agree with both the former posts.

    It strikes me they've applied the same logic with the "Help for buying electric cars" sort of thing. Nice idea in principle, but apallingly thought out.

    1) Hybrids aren't included - and the only commercially viable and remotely practical electric vehicle these days is the toyota Prius (which is full of evil heavy metals)

    2) Purely electric cars are useless, because they're either:
    - Apalling little plastic snotboxes like the G-whizz that run at 17mph for five minutes before
    needing a week to recharge, and instantly turn into death-dealing shrapnel if anyone so much
    as bumps the number plate, or:
    - Basically the same as a proper car, but with a titanic wad of ridiculously expensive batteries in
    it that make it weigh a million tons and cost as much as a small caribbean island - and make it
    epically slow and cumbersome (as well as taking a week to recharge.)

    3) I felectric cars are supposed to be clean, where is all the electricity to charge them going to come from? Oh... That'll be what the four new coal fired power stations are for then won't it!

    Until there is a cheap, clean source of electricity, electric cars are a complete non-starter.

    And as soon as there is a cheap, clean source of electricity, no-one will buy purely electric cars. they'll buy hydrogen fuel cell cars.

    As soon as our politicians join the real world, we might get some half-decent policy.
  5. ploughboy

    ploughboy Active Member

    The other half went to look into this at a couple of car garage yesterday. And no matter how you think the figures stack up she can get £2000 for her lovely 120000 miles 306, and then the garage will give her a trade in price too! Bringing the price of say a new ford KA down to a rather nice £5000 ish.

    If the pot of money is going to run out then get in there quick!!
  6. marksmith

    marksmith Active Member

    The theory is nice but we are all paying for it anyway.
    It was bad enough the Government giving our hard-earned money to the banks, so increasing our taxes again for this farce of a gesture, is just taking the biscuit!
    The country is on it's knees, everyone is feeling the pinch. We need time to look at how to feed our families, heat our homes and continue to pay for the fuel in our present cars. This government is just trying to buy time until it is voted out and leaves us all in a very sorry state.
    Don't humour them by suggesting that this might be a good idea, they will then put the base rate of income tax up to 25% and the middle earners up to 45% and say that's what we wanted!
    I will keep what I've got and see what happens over the next 24 months.
    I wish I was French, at least they've got the bottle to show that they are angry!
  7. hicks

    hicks Member

    Nice idea, but too little, too late. New car prices have already gone up considerably over the last few months, as manufacturers claw back the £1000 discount. So there is little to gain. And it's screwed those who wanted to buy a new car, but don't have a qualifying scrappage vehicle. Mine was registered Nov 1999, so technically will be over 10 years old by the end date (March 2010), but still doesn't qualify.
    Plus the scheme is voluntary, so not all manufacturers will be participating.
  8. NeilW

    NeilW Member

    I wonder what price we will/would end up paying for the new car. If the dealer know that there's a £2000 refund available, they'll not be so keen to pare their price as severely....

    Does sound like a nice idea though - later in the summer the new Prius should be available and as our existing one has done 68k near faultless miles at 50++mpg, it would seem an opportune time to sell it and trade in the "learner" Polo for scrap...

    Can you trade in partners of more than 10 years standing for a discount on a new one too? :>
  9. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    Lets all buy a cheap nasty banger and get the grand!!
  10. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    They've thought of that one - you have to have been the registered keeper for the last 12 months and the car has to have an MOT.
  11. bassinthebathroom

    bassinthebathroom Active Member

    The other consideration is, would the owners of a 10 year + old car normally buy a brand new car? Although the £2k is more than I'd get for my 12 year old Golf, to buy a car of comparable engine size etc new would be about £10k (with the £2k off), costing me a good £3k more than getting the same car, but 2-3 years old, second hand.
    Could this just be a government desperate to inject some buoyancy, at any cost, back into an economy it's driven (excuse the pun) into the ground? Electioneering springs to mind to - though I doubt any one voter will be taken in by this alleged 'ray of light' in an otherwise dismal budget...
    Only for a very small market type and level of consumer is this really a good deal, as mentioned before.
  12. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

  13. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    It's the usual smoke and mirrors job - who actually buys new cars anyway, apart from companies and Motability? Buy 18 month old and let someone else take the depreciation.
    Around 20%+ of a cars lifetime emissions are down to it's manufacture, so this is helping the environment how?
    Leccy car or hybrid = expensive lithium batteries that weigh a ton and need recycling at ££££ unless heavily subsidised.
    We need less cars on the road, not more, but until a viable alternative exists it ain't gonna happen (and while companies like Stagecoach control "public" transport it certainly won't ever happen.)
    Sop for the next election, like the rest of the Budget.
  14. bbg

    bbg Member

  15. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Not enough of a sop to make a difference, if you ask me. No-one on here seems to be buying it!

    There have only ever been two real landslides in british politics. (Maybe three if you count Churchill's heavy defeat in 1945 but that wasn't really a disaster, merely a serious duffing-up.) 1906 and 1997 represent the two biggest electoral reversals in British history, the Conservatives falling foul of both.

    Country recently embroiled in a deeply unpopular war abroad, economy in tatters, poor and uncharismatic leadership from No.10, lies and deceit from the ruling party all coming out in the newspapers, and a powerful speaker on the opposition benches....

    An increasingly folorn and detatched looking prime minister, left to clear up the mess of his long-serving predecessor and the cabinet he was part of. Trade unions in open rebellion, strikes over pay from public sector workers, unemployment on the up and up every month, thousands of redundancies, house prices falling off a cliff, sterling at an all time low, economic recession, and a government which had just recorded it's worst ever local election results....

    The parallels with the circumstances of the either of those years really are quite striking. Gordon Brown may well be heading towards the third great landslide of british politics at this rate.

    Whether that's a good thing or a bad one - I'll not coment on!
  16. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    Last edited: Apr 25, 2009
  17. bbg

    bbg Member

  18. Nuke

    Nuke Active Member

    I am looking in to it.

    Some of the dealers don't seem to be signing up for it as quickly as they were initially indicating though.
    Now that they have found out they have to front 1000 pounds themselves to match the governments 1000 they have all stopped there harty applause and are reading the small print with a mighty fine toothcomb.

    I know i wouldn't get 2000 for my car anywhere else and from what I have read the dealers are being told they cannot stop their excisting deals either.
    So if you are getting money off plus excisting deals then it could be a fair save on a new car.
    Plus with the fact that servicing and the MOT is covered for three years with new cars (correct me if i'm wrong) then what im paying pretty much now to keep my battered car on the road would also go a hefty way to financing a new model.

    If not then i'd have to take my chances in the 2nd hand market, get what i could for my car and extend my loan again when it starts costing me more to upkeep than buying 2nd hand.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2009
  19. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Servicing depends on the deal you get. Usually it's the other way round, and your warrantee depends on you sitcking ot the service schedule. So you still pay parts and labour for consumable items. (brakepads, tyres, oil and filters etc.) It's only if something major lets go (the clutch for example) that the dealer pays.

    New vehicles don't need an MOT for the first three years anyway. (Think it's 3 but could be 2....)
  20. marksmith

    marksmith Active Member


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